Am I thick?

[Donone]

Nobody else seems to have had any difficulty with sorting out the v2 packs, so the question probably needs no answer!
Considering pre-buying...
If I want to program all things as in 1.53; mobile, desktop, games and database... I presume that several different packages are required which after first sight seems to be an expensive buy. To buy one package, say for data, is reasonably priced but then is restricted. To purchase another later is expensive.

Have I misunderstood?
Is VAT included in the GBP price?
Do I have it correct that v1.53 Pro owners upgrade price is list minus 20% or is it 10% plus and then 10% for pre-order?

Thanks
[Edit] It should be noted that the original v1 email address must be used to activate the coupon, not necessarily the current one.
The coupon seems to give a 10% deduction not 20% (or 10% on 10%).
The VAT question has been answered, the price does not include VAT.
The remaining points remain for comment.

[c4esar]

Err... Well, as I've just had a look at the different packs of PPL 2.0, I'm totally confused now.
:confused:
So until now I'd thought about getting PPL 2.0 as fast as possible, although I just bought my 1.53 (prof.) no more than a few months ago.
But I really need some advice now to get a version of PPL 2.0 that fills it's shoes (considering the possibilities)...
Got the same questions Donone has!

Ideas:
No. 1: Data Edition + WM SDK + Swirl GE -> Data, Games, WM and Desktop
No. 2: Mobile Edition + Orion DB Lib + Swirl GE -> Data, Games, WM !no Desktop
No. 3: Game Edition + Orion DB Lib + WM SDK -> Data, Games, WM and Desktop

Am I right or completely wrong?
Is that Orion DB Lib required for using a Database or just a comfortable tool for doing that?

No offense, but I have to admit that if there had been as many different packs for PPL 1.53 when I stumbled upon it - I wouldn't have bought it (Of course that would have been very silly, but .. :rolleyes: don't want to think that much about packages and buying things twice...)

[Mike Halliday]

@Donone; - Long time no see - thought you had vanished in to thin air! hee hee


I too got confused over this.

I have v1.53pro and can do everything I want with it.

It does seem that for V2.0 I would need every component to make it do wha V1.53 does.

I think that maybe the Orion library is a much more polished DB engine than the standard SQLite engine? - I hope SQLite accessibility is still available in the standard v2 release! :)

As for the various verions, I think that Alain is targeting a specific audience? - Why would you want Business class data handling when you are only making games?

Sorta makes sense really!



Alain, can you confirm what our users will need to make V2.0 have the same capability as V1.53?? - I assume the extra packs are addons for extended functionality and not to make V2 function like for like with V1.53?

Will V2.0 Game edition still allow you to create form based applications or will it be GAPI apps only?


Either way, I still can't wait to see it in action! :)

M.

[Donone]

Hello Mike, yes I still read the newsletters.
I note that you say...
As for the various verions, I think that Alain is targeting a specific audience? - Why would you want Business class data handling when you are only making games?

Unfortunately not all users are specific. I tinker with games and database. Also sprites and pixels are not necessarily only for games.

I could agree, if the basic package permitted use of SQLite 3 and the basic games engine as in 1.53 and the other packages were for 'expert and serious' commercial level work i.e. to take it to a higher level.

I think to restrict the language in this way is mostly going to turn away people that want to get started but don't yet know if they want to 'tinker with games or use database or both'.
The alternative is extremely expensive, especially in Europe with the high VAT rates in some countries. The price on the box might sound OK but add VAT and then take off the discount and you are back where you started when you thought the price was as listed.
Many of these software (NSBasic - Basic4PPC - PowerBasic) offer a much higher discount for old users i.e. $199 reduced to $99.

As an aside, do you know if it is still required to know the Windows API for parameters and the message system etc i.e. to make good use one needs to have been a Windows programmer, or is this hidden as in Delphi?

Keep up the good work with the monthly.

[kornalius]

Hi,

Sorry for the new marketing strategies but PPL 2.0 is a very different product. It is a huge undertaking for a tiny business like ours and I certainly cannot make everyone happy with the pricing but PPL 2.0 will be in its own class.

Did you ever purchase Delphi, VB or VC++ ? Think 600 - 800$. I feel PPL 2.0 is still way cheaper.

In the base package you can compile and do anything you could in v1.x. The packages are very easy to use, object-oriented libraries that integrates visually with the IDE to make programming a snap. Some features in the IDE, like the visual query editor, table editor, visual game editor are only available with the purchase of the specific package, same goes for Windows Mobile targeting.

[c4esar]

Thanks for your explanations, Alain!
To me it seems the pricing of PPL 2.0 is really fair. Even 1.53 is high quality software and 2.0 seems to go far beyond..
If one knows exactly what he wants to do with PPL, it might be a big advantage for him to be able to choose between different packages fitting his needs!
But as Donone mentioned, for one like me who tries a little bit of this and a little bit of that it's difficult to decide.

So for I'm not a fan of "mausschubsen" (like we say in german, just point and click to create one's software) but of using real code I'd choose the Mobile Edition.
Because
basic = everything of 1.x except visual editors and Windows mobile support
+ Mobile Libraries = Windows mobile support
makes everything I need? :cool:

greetings from the baltic sea

[kornalius]

c4esar,

Yes the basic will offer the same as 1.x with the same basic libraries. If you want to target Windows Mobile you need the WinMo SDK. You got it right.

The visual editors and component libraries are very high quality and offer a huge time saver.

[Donone]

I obviously am!! Just look at my signature, this is one of those 'sometimes'.
@kornalius.
1. Can you please say why the trolley calculator only gives 10% not 20% for pre-order while owning v1 pro?
2. Can you please be a little more specific. You say the base unit allows anything now done with 1.xx, (which must therefore include use of SQLite, mobile and games, while also saying that the business unit offers SQLite, the mobile unit permits programming for mobile etc. etc. Perhaps I have not read pedantically enough?
3. I presume that if ALL functions are required at the best price then one would purchase the Business unit + Mobile SDK + Swirl and that is all.
Thank you

[Nicknack]

@Donone:
1: you know the prices in the pre-order shop are already 10% of the original ones?
compare the prices in the pre-order shop with the prices on the original product page.
2: maybe a list with every bigger feature of each package would be helpful ? I think would have also took a different choice of package if I would have had more detailed informations...

[Donone]

Thanks Nicknack. I have only seen one shop entitled Product catalogue, I don't know of another. It shows £99.09 GBP for Business and then gives 10%. This must be the wrong place.

I think you are right about the list, it would make it clearer exactly what the base unit consists of and what the difference is between SQLite in that and the Business unit.
From kornalius' comment it seems that games and mobile can still be done in the base unit. In which case what is the 'extra' that comes with the other units?
I think it is essential people are very clear what they are buying, as you now illustrate.

[Nicknack]

here (http://ppl-lang.com/products) you can see the original prices and there (https://store5.esellerate.net/store/checkout/CustomLayout.aspx?s=STR5900755369&pc=&page=OnePageCatalog.htm) is the pre order shop. you can reach it if go on home screen (http://ppl-lang.com/) and press the pre order button under buy ppl 2 ;)
as far I understand is the ppl data edition only the basic edition plus sqlite package and the other two special things for an minimized price? :confused:
...visual game editor are only available with the purchase of the specific package, same goes for Windows Mobile targeting.
this says for me that mobile programming is only possible with the mobile package.
except for this packages seem simply to be (virtual) extensions to make your programming (life :D) easier

[Kobus]

Hi,

Donone is exactly asking the questions that I am wondering about.
So Donone: I'm following you and thank you for putting it into words.

Bye, bye,
Helen.

[Donone]

@kobus: I feel sure there are many more watching and waiting.
@Nicknack: Thanks for instructions.
I appreciate what you say Nicknack and the attempt to bring clarity, however, kornalius said...

Yes the basic will offer the same as 1.x with the same basic libraries.

As I am able with 1.xx to use the mobile device with PPL and use SQLite...
Interestingly, ask yourself what 'PPL' means. Pocket...

I reiterate your point that a much more precise description is required (for existing users... nobody else would know the difference) otherwise it is a case of buying blind.
Look at any advert for any language and there are a long list of features.
@kornalius:
May I suggest... in the most respectful way... that perhaps you are too close to the subject and everything is clear and obvious to you. I think, take a step back, and put yourself in a previous user's shoes.
Will you please provide, perhaps through the registered users section, a more precise list of capabilities etc. and then permit further questions from users if uncertainties persist.
Thank you

[dennishea]

@Kornalius

Could you explain the upgrade policeys on ppl 2, not from ppl 1.x to ppl 2 but from ppl 2 to ppl 2.x.

dennishea

[kornalius]

dennishea,

Upgrades are free for PPL 2's updates just like they were with PPL 1.

[dennishea]

@ Kornalius

Thank You

dennishea

[Donone]

@kornalius
Am I to presume I shall not get an answer to help me decide?

[Edit] I have just found the separate thread started. Thank you.