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-   -   My problems with the trial version... (http://forums.arianesoft.ca//showthread.php?t=1981)

SkyFlash 06-21-2010 03:11 PM

My problems with the trial version...
 
I am trying to evaluate PPL2 as a base for writing games for my HTC HD2 Touch phone. I am a Visual Studio 8.0 .NET programmer writing with C#, I was actually looking for a DirectDraw wrapper for within VS but landed here.

Now, I tried 1.62 first but it obviously doesn't support my phone at all.... I wasnt able to run the programs I wrote or any of the demos (on the phone, worked nicely on windows 7), the phone wasn't even able to run the ppl.exe without crashing (yes the path was configured right).

As 1.62 seemed to be completely unstable I downloaded V2 to see if it is better. Now. I was able to get my phone to execute PPL2.exe, thats the good part. I also managed to (somewhat) execute the demos on the phone, thats also good.

But other than that, it's all pretty unstable.

The demos look really crappy on my phone. There are non printable ASCII chars all over the place, the apps that use forms have a size that does not fit the size of my phone and if I try to fix it I cannot get them to run on WVGA solution at all.

If I try to run the form at 480x800 its too large cause of the title bar... and the title bar is hidden below the normal windows mobile titlebar. If I try to fix it by maximizing the form, it does not do it but sits at a (I guess) VGA size instead of WVGA.

The game demo (the only one that I am really interested in) does not work at all, it displays just a black VGA window and the FPS (that I can see on windows 7) is not displayed at all.

http://magelore.de/DemoApp.jpg

http://magelore.de/DemoCode.jpg

Now, is there anyone that has source code for a game like demo that actually works on WVGA (like a ball jumping in a 480x800 fullscreen DirectDraw window)?

Also, the thing that I really want to know is if the swirl game engine inside PPL2 is capable enough for what I want.... but I think the demo does not have it onboard right?

So, how can I do a trial of the game programming part? As even the basis of PPL2 is buggy and instable like hell, I don't really have much confidence into the game engine part right now.... The forum has like almost no code snippets that actually work on my phone and the community here seems to be like 5 people.

Also... to be frank... I feel splitting the "Windows Mobile SDK" module from the PPL2 base and selling it on its own is a complete ripoff. I didnt even notice at first that with a base install of the "POCKET PROGRAMMMING language" I would be unable to actually compile for a mobile device, I found that out in the webshop wondering what the WM SDK is for.

I would be more than pleased to buy a complete package of PPL2 for 250$ if I knew that I can actually do a complete game with it, but I surely will not buy anything without knowing it actually works.

I dont get what the packages are for... PPL2 as a base package is completely useless.

If I want to program for desktop I can download Visual Studio for free, and it can do everything PPL2 can, work with databases, do forms, graphics... what is the advantage of using PPL2?

Then, the Game Package.... thats actually nice (if it works). But why does the Game Package not have the WM SDK onboard? I mean, is there anyone actually programming games for desktop PCs with PPL2? There are much better game wrappers for Visual Studio on desktop and they are all free.

Anyway, would be nice if anyone can offer some help and show me how PPL2 is actually worth the 250$ for the most basic package to program games with.

Just as a suggestion.... I was wondering why there is no community at all surrounding PPL2 and supporting the product. But I think I found the answer... it's the licensing and cost involved vs. the uncertainty what you get for it.

I think you guys need a new licensing concept.

MAYBE it is a good idea to supply indie and non-profit developers like myself with a FULLY working demo of PPL2 and then make them pay for a license to SELL the game when its done...

Then people could actually form a community and contribute code and idea without shelling out 250$ just to see if they will be able to program a game with it at all.

And last... any version of PPL2 ever sold should have the WM SDK onboard. Really... it's in the name, it should be able to do it.

Don't get me wrong, I think you may have a really nice software here... if it works. I really want this to work out, but currently it isn't for me.

I just wish I could start programming a game with PPL2 and when its done pay my 250$ licensing cost for the full version and sell the game. I may be crazy at times but I am not stupid enough to pay the 250$ without a clue if SWIRL actually works for me.

stratus 06-21-2010 05:41 PM

Do not even think to buy.There is no support,no forum and the program hangs every 1 minute.Most of demo programs are not working correctly on my hd2.Unfortunately i was stupid and i buy the program and simply i lost 240 euros.

kornalius 06-22-2010 01:11 PM

I am sorry you feel this way about PPL 2. The problem with Windows Mobile, is that there are too many different devices to support which all have different CPU's, screen resolutions, graphic cards, Windows Mobile versions. It is practically impossible to support them all. The graphic engine we use is called PocketHAL and it probably does not work with your device.

We will probably retire the PPL line of products from the market and concentrate on other products. PPL will most probably continue to live on as a desktop development language with version 3. The compiler / interpreter will be rewritten this time with no Windows Mobile support.

SkyFlash 06-22-2010 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kornalius (Post 12580)
I am sorry you feel this way about PPL 2. The problem with Windows Mobile, is that there are too many different devices to support which all have different CPU's, screen resolutions, graphic cards, Windows Mobile versions. It is practically impossible to support them all. The graphic engine we use is called PocketHAL and it probably does not work with your device.

We will probably retire the PPL line of products from the market and concentrate on other products. PPL will most probably continue to live on as a desktop development language with version 3. The compiler / interpreter will be rewritten this time with no Windows Mobile support.

Yes I know Microsoft is not really doing their share to make programming for Windows Mobile easier. Actually the whole Windows Mobile OS may be discontinued in the near future, but who knows.

Anyway, I am not sure you have a valid business concept selling PPL as a desktop programming language with the free Visual Studio compiler out there that can do practically everything and has millions of supporters and tons of free code samples. It's not like PPL is any easier than using a decent Xna framework.

I wish you luck though. :)

Nicknack 06-29-2010 09:22 PM

is there any easy language as PPL which is able to compile on/for Windows and Linux in smooth transition? Linux is growing on the mobile market (Android, OpenPandora) and if Windows Mobile 7 is a succes, kornalius still could take it into account. use a compiler like gcc or llvm and write a PPL frontend, together with a simple installation and editor, you would have nearly the cross platform ability of C and simpliness of PPL universe.
it would be still much work, but less than writing a own full compiler. this is only my point of view, I'm looking forward to your opinion.


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